MEET KATHLEEN: NY ESCAPEE
This is the first of a new series I am introducing to my readers, in which I will occasionally share an interview with a NY-to-NC escapee who has lived to tell the tale…This first interview is with Kathleen Thomas; lawyer, professor, kick-ass mom and wife, and friend of yours truly. Kathleen and I moved here around the same time; our husbands both accepted positions at the same company, which is how our families came to be friends. I asked Kathleen to be my inaugural interview, and she obliged, because I promised her cocktails. (Only half kidding. Thanks gurl.)
Name: Kathleen DeLaney Thomas
Day job: Law Professor
Fam stats: Hubs Courtney, son CJ who is 4, and a daughter, Evan, who is 15 months
How many years did you live in NY, and where did you live? I lived in NYC for 12 years, and covered 3 boroughs in that time! The first year, right out of college, I lived with a friend in Sunnyside, Queens. Then I moved to the Village for law school at NYU, and stayed there for a couple of years afterwards. When I moved in with Courtney, we got our first place in Chelsea, which we lived in for 3 years. Last, we bought an apartment in Downtown Brooklyn that we lived in for 5 years before we moved to Chapel Hill!
So how long have you been in the Triangle, and where do you live now? We’ve been here for just over two years. We live in Chapel Hill.
Why did you move here? The short answer is that we moved here because I took a job as a professor at the law school at UNC. The long answer is that we were ready to leave NYC and the Triangle seemed like the best fit for our family. After having our son, life in NYC started to wear on us. It’s obviously expensive, and even in an apartment that was big by “New York standards”, we were feeling cramped. I felt like my son was not getting the space and fresh air that he needed, and we had plans to expand our family. Additionally, with a child, we were no longer taking advantage of many of the things we’d loved about NYC in our 20s. Both of us grew up in the suburbs and we ultimately decided raising kids in the city wasn’t ideal for us. That meant either moving to the NYC ‘burbs and commuting, or moving out of the city altogether. I didn’t like the former option: housing outside the city is still expensive and, more importantly, I really wanted to avoid a long commute because I felt it would cut down on the time I was able to spend with my kids before and after work. Courtney attended Duke for college, so applying for jobs in the Triangle was actually his idea. I was applying for professor positions all over the country, and he pointed out that the Triangle would be a great place to raise a family. He has fond memories from his time here. I was extremely lucky because after he made that suggestion, I found out that UNC Law School was actually hiring in my field! (tax law) We considered a few other locations but ultimately the Triangle had the most to offer for us. First and foremost, we needed to be close enough to a city that Courtney could find a job (he is a corporate lawyer), and there were good options for him down here between Research Triangle Park and Raleigh. It’s also a short flight or easy drive to both of our families (his in NJ, mine in VA). We also liked that the winters are mild but there are still seasons. Plus, there’s a big foodie scene down here! Particularly in Durham. In terms of “hobbies”, Courtney and I like to eat and drink, so good restaurants are pretty much all we require. Chapel Hill, Durham, Raleigh and some of the surrounding towns (e.g., Pittsboro, Hillsborough) definitely fit that bill! We also like that it’s a fairly open-minded and diverse part of North Carolina. We are a mixed-race family so we were conscious of choosing somewhere that wouldn’t make life difficult for our kids in that respect. Lastly, the public schools are fantastic in Chapel Hill, which really excited us.
How long did it take you to adjust to living in the south? I was shocked by how little time it took to adjust after so many years in New York. I think it may be because living here is not unlike where I grew up, in Fairfax, VA. I haven’t lived there since I was 18, but it was surprising how quickly life in the ‘burbs came back to me and felt normal. Like riding a bike, I guess. I think we were just so ready to leave New York that it all felt like a big vacation for us that first summer. Courtney and I would sit out on our screened in porch, grill for dinner and sip wine and think “this was a great decision!” It also helped that I really loved my job right off the bat. A few things took some getting used to, though. I basically had to relearn to drive after not driving for 12 years, which I found stressful. And the pace of everything felt so slow compared to NY, which took some getting used to. (Although now that seems totally normal to me.) Courtney and I also couldn’t get over how friendly everyone is here! People smile and say hi all over our neighborhood! People were dropping off cookies and welcome gifts! We had never been welcomed so warmly in any of our multiple moves around New York. But, believe it or not, the biggest cultural shock was moving to a big college sports town! I never went to a “sports school,” and I knew people took things seriously down here, but I had no idea how seriously. Like, our fire trucks are Tar Heel blue in Chapel Hill. These people are not messing around. If Courtney goes out in a Duke t-shirt (which he insists on doing all of the time), we’ll get a friendly comment about it every single time (like, “oh sorry, we can’t serve coffee to Duke fans!”) I find it all very amusing and it’s fun to see the whole town rally around the University.
What do you miss most about New York? My friends. We left a lot of close friends behind. We basically knew no one down here, and while I really do love meeting new people, it’s harder to start over with close friendships as you get older. Here’s the only other thing I truly miss: walking to lunch! I hate that I have to get in my car, give up my parking spot, and drive to get lunch at work nowadays! (Which means I mostly bring my lunch to work.) Walking out the door to a dozen options in NYC was the best!
What do you NOT miss? I LOVED my time in New York. But I don’t miss smelly streets in the summer, crowded subway commutes, rude people, rude service, rats, roaches, walking to daycare/pediatrician/store in the pouring rain, snow, or slush, hearing people through the walls or on your ceiling in your apartment, expensive everything, waiting lists for every children’s class, lines for every children’s activity, sitting in traffic in cabs. Living in NYC is amazing, but it’s a little insane. Once you’re “out”, you look back and think, I did that? I lived in that crappy little apartment? I did that commute? I spent that much money on [X]? And you think, man, that was insane!
So what do you love most about living in the south now? I love so many things about it. I guess my favorite things are the food and the people! (Have I mentioned that I love food yet?) There are so many farms around here and “farm to table” is a big thing. I love that we can go to any number of restaurants and get fresh and delicious farm food! When we want to grill a really good burger, Courtney gets in the car and literally drives 10 minutes to a farm nearby where they sell it as fresh as you can get it. And the people here are wonderful. And I don’t even really mean “southerners”, because the Triangle is FULL of people who are not from here. But that’s part of it’s charm. The culture is friendly and welcoming, but there’s no club you need to join. Most of the friends I’ve met have been here less than 5 years, and many are northeast transplants. Others are born and raised in the Triangle. So many are brilliant professionals, but people are completely unpretentious.
What’s your favorite local “spot?” Elaine’s on Franklin for dinner; the Crunkleton for drinks; Maple View Farms for ice cream!
What’s the biggest misconception about the south? The Triangle has got to be one of the least “southern” places in the south. Part of that is because so many people are not from here. There’s not much of a southern accent down in this part of North Carolina! Also, contrary to popular belief, my living in North Carolina does not mean I am near the Outer Banks. In fact, it’s a longer drive from here (4–5 hours) than it was when I lived in VA!
Any advice for someone considering leaving New York? Spend 20 minutes on the Trulia app looking at housing down here (or anywhere else besides NYC and San Francisco) and tell me you don’t want to move out of NYC.
